vojna

[RAN]

Sem poskušal rezime vsega kar je Hawkings napisal. :wink:

Sam Hawkens?? A je to tisti iz Vinetuja :?: :shock:

Tisti ja.

Ko mu je lasulja dol padla je neumnosti kvantal.

Stephan jih je pa zapisal.

http://www.enfolded.net/sync/book-hawking-universe.htm

[Ice]

pepe,razocaral si me. :cry: stephen hawkings,ne sam.

UUUUUUUUUAAAAAAAAAAAA pepe ni vec pepe! UUUUUUUAAAAAAAAAA

:roll:

:silly:

pepe,wanna cup :arrow: :morning: :?: :wink:

[Pravokotar]

Šment, Vinetu je pač edina knjiga, ki sem jo prebral. Celo večkrat. Takoj danes tečem v Big Bang, da se Stephenu Hawkingu osebno opravičim.

Upam, da me boš potem spet vzljubil, Eismeister.

Dr PEPE and Mr Hyde

[RAN]

Za Pepeta nisem nikoli dvomil.

Verjamem pa, da sva tud Vinetou-ja vneto prebirala.

Pa Tekumseha najbrž tudi.

:D

[J]

vceraj poslusal nekega reporterja,ki se je pogovarjal z ameriskimi vojaki,ki so govorili z anglesko govorecimi iracani; so ameri iracanom povedali,da so jih prisli "osvoboditi" in jim prinasajo "mir".iracani naj bi samo debelo gledali in jih vprasali,kaj je to "svoboda" in "mir"?!

ce se zavedamo,da 50% iracanov ne pozna drugega,kot sadamovega terorja (sadam je 1969 prisel na oblast) in je to tretja vojna v dvajsetih letih v iraku postane samo to vprasanje izobrazenega iracana v bistvu grozljivo pricanje stanja v iraku!

Šokantno, da je še celo izobrazenim iračanom "svoboda in mir" čisto

abstrakten pojem! Mislim tudi, da zahodnjaki sploh pozabljajo, ali pa

v isti meri ne dojemljajo arabsko fatalistično mentaliteto! - Kismet, Inshala

itn...Ljudje, ki jim je vojna način zivljenja in ne hodijo po vsakodnevnih

opravkih med bombardiranjem zaradi "inata" kot si zahodnjaki predstavl-

jajo, pač pa business as usual!

Se probam (čeprav nemogoče!" dat v kozo nekega iračana iz podezelja, ki

gre napasit svoje dve koze in mu pride tip z M16 v roki, intercom na glavi,

pištola na boku...in mi začne razlagat koncept svobode, obenem mi pa

njegov kolega inzinirc z buldozerjem ruši vaški mural Saddama Husseina,

ki so ga gledali moji starši, jaz in do zdaj moji otroc!

[RAN]

vceraj poslusal nekega reporterja,ki se je pogovarjal z ameriskimi vojaki,ki so govorili z anglesko govorecimi iracani; so ameri iracanom povedali,da so jih prisli "osvoboditi" in jim prinasajo "mir".iracani naj bi samo debelo gledali in jih vprasali,kaj je to "svoboda" in "mir"?!

ce se zavedamo,da 50% iracanov ne pozna drugega,kot sadamovega terorja (sadam je 1969 prisel na oblast) in je to tretja vojna v dvajsetih letih v iraku postane samo to vprasanje izobrazenega iracana v bistvu grozljivo pricanje stanja v iraku!

Šokantno, da je še celo izobrazenim iračanom "svoboda in mir" čisto

abstrakten pojem! Mislim tudi, da zahodnjaki sploh pozabljajo, ali pa

v isti meri ne dojemljajo arabsko fatalistično mentaliteto! - Kismet, Inshala

itn...Ljudje, ki jim je vojna način zivljenja in ne hodijo po vsakodnevnih

opravkih med bombardiranjem zaradi "inata" kot si zahodnjaki predstavl-

jajo, pač pa business as usual!

Se probam (čeprav nemogoče!" dat v kozo nekega iračana iz podezelja, ki

gre napasit svoje dve koze in mu pride tip z M16 v roki, intercom na glavi,

pištola na boku...in mi začne razlagat koncept svobode, obenem mi pa

njegov kolega inzinirc z buldozerjem ruši vaški mural Saddama Husseina,

ki so ga gledali moji starši, jaz in do zdaj moji otroc!

Čisto tako najbrž ni.

Celo prepričan sem da ni tako.

Morebiti zadnjih deset let je bila država bolj izolirana.

V času največje ekspanzije in velikih gradbenih del so se v Iraku nahajali delavci z vsega sveta in jih je bil cel Irak poln.

Za njihove potrebe so "uvozili" ogromno deklet iz Azijskih dežel (filipinke in tajke).

Kaj hočem povedat, dežela ni bila izolirana v smislu da Arabc razen svoje koze in kamele ni ničesar drugega videl.

V mojem času je bilo na njihovih sukih in v prostocarinskih prodajalnah dobit kar si hotel od tehnične robe do tuje muzike itd. Pri nas vsega tega nisi dobil.

Arabci so brihtni in premeteni ljudje.

Enkrat so jih Amerikanci na led speljali, sedaj se pa ne bodo tako hitro pustili.

Ko bo vsega konec, jim bo v trenutku jasno, kaj je treba počet in kaj govorit.

Sedaj je še prezgodaj.

8)

[SiR]

Pepe - če hočeš, lahko poleti na 3M privlečem še album s sličicami iz filmov Vinetu - pa se bomo skupaj izobraževali :)

Clash civilizacij pa to :)

[J]

Ran!

Vsekakor! samo malo sem se probal postavit v kozo tanajmanjšega

kmeta na vasi , ko mu začnejo osvoboditelji z "hearts and minds" kampanijo! Tudi jaz sem se motal po raznih Jordanijah, Oman, Emirati itn... nisem bil pa še v Iraqu! Niti nimam več nobenega kategoričnega mnenja o tej vojni! Lahko samo probam komentirat primer do primera!

[RAN]

Ran!

Vsekakor! samo malo sem se probal postavit v kozo tanajmanjšega

kmeta na vasi , ko mu začnejo osvoboditelji z "hearts and minds" kampanijo! Tudi jaz sem se motal po raznih Jordanijah, Oman, Emirati itn... nisem bil pa še v Iraqu! Niti nimam več nobenega kategoričnega mnenja o tej vojni! Lahko samo probam komentirat primer do primera!

Se strinjam.

Tisti kmet ni najbolj reprezentativni del populacije, je pa njen dobršen del.

Ampak saj bo boljš.

Jaz tudi nimam izdelanega mnenja in se prihodnosti v obliki ameriškega monopola nasilja za urejanje svetovnih problemov, zelo bojim.

[Pravokotar]

Sym, neskončno sem ti hvaležen za velikodušno ponudbo :lol: Sumim pa, da bo poleti na 3M neprekinjen defile oseb, ki bi utegnile na tak ali drugačen način ovirati izobraževanje.

Sicer pa, da se malo povrnemo na temo: že rajnki MARAT (Jean Paul, da se ne bomo narobe razumeli) je nekje v 18.stoletju smelo trdil, da je SVOBODO TREBA VZPOSTAVITI Z NASILJEM. Potem ga je pa Charlotte Corday umrla v kopalni kadi. Ampak to je že druga zgodba.

[J]

Nevaren svet, kjer je samo ena velesila in ni več ravnotezja!

Suzuki ima prav, ko pravi, da bi moral ostati na drevesih :lol:

....enkrat, ko bi bli na tleh in zagledal kakšne kosti, bi pa spet znorel....

tum..tum..tum..tum..tumm (Odiseja 2001).....

[J]

.....obenem se tudi porajajo vprašanja glede zahodnega - bom rekel kar

"anglosaksonskega" vsiljevanja in prepričevanja sveta, in kakšen naj bi ta

svet moral biti! Torej anglosaksonski pricipi svobode!. Kulturne, gospodar-

ske in ne vem kakšne globalizacije, se predvsem temeljijo na "anglosak-

sonskih" principih in pojmovanjih "svobode, medčloveških odnosev itn..."

[marijan]

j nekaj me zanima, a ni vzhodna civilizacija nekaj stoletij nazaj vsiljevala svojo voljo po evropi. sem pa proti vsaki vojni, vsakemu vsiljevanju, itd.,ampak ameri bi morali ostati doma in delati na svojih poljih.

[J]

Ja Marijan, to obadva veva! Veva tudi, da je začetek pomembnosti nafte

nekje na začetku prejšnjega stoletja, kjer se je pametni Onasis okoristil.

Vemo tudi, da je Bush sluga sedmim naftnim sestram! Vemo tudi, da je

kar naenkrat nastal neki Izrael, in so se spet ponovile krivice, ki pa so

se dogajale in še vedno dogajajo vsem vpletenim na tistih koncih!

Realistično je "Bottom line", ki je "zdaj" nafta, obenem tudi očitna nevarnost raznih Saddamov! Še vedno ne vidim nobene rešitve in je nikoli ni bilo. Rešitev je "razumevanje med narodi" - vedno bila!, ampak to je idealizem! Tudi moja prvotna zelja, da se reinkarniram v delfina je bolj

majava, kaj pa če me ujame USNavy in pošlje v zaliv odkrivat mine?

Enostavno se pa "zahod" in "vzhod" ne razume! ponavljam: meni je

to vse catch22!

[marijan]

točno tako 22, ali pa kaj je bilo prej kura ali jajce-ista ti je prga.

problem je le v tem ko nastrada narod ki recimo pojma nima kaj se dogaja 10.000 km stran od njega. vse je pa povezano z ekonomijo, ta je pa svinja. :D

[Ice]

ekonomija kot taka ne,temvec tisti,ki "jo" zganjajo.

[J]

Marijan: Ja ja! Kako ze gre? Life's a bitch and then you die!

Btw! Včeraj sem nekje v pol spanju slišal na SKY-u, kako je v ameriki

neki konsenz, češ " Narod je pripravljen prebavit 500 mrtvih vojakov,

potem se pa začnejo dvomi!" trenutno jih pa matra ker je benđo blizu

2$ za gallon!

[suzuki]

Zgolj v vednost in ravnanje: kdo je Paulo Coelho pa najbrž ni treba razlagat...

HVALA, PREDSEDNIK BUSH

Paulo Coelho

11. marec 2003

Odprto pismo pisatelja Paula Coelha predsedniku Bushu. Objavljeno v brazilskem dnevniku Folha de Sao Paulo ter v angleškem prevodu prevajalca Montserrata Mira.

Hvala, véliki voditelj George W. Bush.

Hvala, da ste nam vsem pokazali nevarnost, ki jo predstavlja Saddam Hussein. Morda smo mnogi od nas pozabili, da je uporabil kemično orozje proti svojemu ljudstvu, proti Kurdom, proti Irancem... Hussein je krvoločni diktator, ena najjasnejših podob zla današnjega dne.

Seveda to ni edini razlog, zaradi katerega sem vam hvaležen. V prvih mesecih leta 2003 ste bili sposobni svetu pokazati veliko pomembnih stvari in zato zaslužite mojo hvaležnost. Tukaj vam želim povedati: hvala.

Hvala, da ste nam vsem pokazali, da turško ljudstvo in njihov parlament nista naprodaj niti za 26 milijard dolarjev.

Hvala, da ste svetu odkrili veliki prepad, ki vlada med odločitvijo vladajočih in med željami ljudstva. Da ste razjasnili, da tako José María Aznar kot tudi Tony Blair ne pripisujeta niti najmanjše pomembnosti in niti najmanj ne spoštujeta glasov, ki sta jih dobila na volitvah. Aznar je sposoben ignorirati, da je 90 odstotkov Špancev proti vojni in Blair se ne pusti vplivati s strani največje javne manifestacije, izvedene v Angliji v zadnjih 30 letih.

Hvala, ker je vaša vztrajnost prisilila Tonyja Blaira, da je šel v angleški parlament s ponarejenim dosjejem, ki ga je napisal neki študent pred 10 leti in ga predstavil kot "silne dokaze, zbrane s pomočjo britanskih obveščevalskih služb".

Hvala, da ste dosegli, da se je Collin Powell osmešil, ko je prikazoval Varnostnemu svetu OZN neke fotografije, ki jih je le par tednov kasneje ovrgel Hans Blix, odgovorni vodja inšpektorjev za razorožitev Iraka.

Hvala, ker je vasa pozicija povzročila, da je zunanjega ministra Francije, gospoda Dominique-ja Villepina v njegovih diskurzih proti vojni doletela čast, da so mu ploskali na plenarni seji. Čast, ki jo je imel, kolikor vem, samo enkrat v zgodovini OZN ob predstavitvi svojega mnenja Nelson Mandela.

Hvala, ker se je zaradi vaših prizadevanj za vojno prvič zgodilo, da so arabski narodi - običajno vsak na svojem bregu - enoglasno obsodili neko invazijo, kar se je zgodilo med srečanjem, ki so ga v zadnjem tednu februarja slavili v Kairu.

Hvala, ker ste s svojo retorično potrditvijo, da "OZN nima možnosti, da bi lahko pokazal svojo pomembnost" dosegli, da so nazadnje tudi najbolj trmaste države sprejele stališče proti napadu na Irak.

Hvala, ker je vaša zunanja politika povzročila izjavo zunanjega ministra Velike Britanije, Jacka Strawa, ki je v samem 21. stoletju povedal, da "je lahko neka vojna moralno opravičljiva" in s to izjavo izgubil vso svojo kredibilnost.

Hvala, da ste skušali razdeliti Evropo, ki se bori za svoje poenotenje; to je znamenje za svarilo, ki ne bo ostalo neopaženo.

Hvala, da ste dosegli to, kar je v tem stoletju uspelo le nekaterim: združiti milijone ljudi z vseh celin v borbi za isto idejo - pa četudi je ta ideja v nasprotju z vašo.

Hvala, ker ste nam ponovno dali čutiti, da naše besede, četudi ne slišane, so pa vsaj izrečene in to nam daje več moči za prihodnost.

Hvala, da nas ignorirate, da marginalizirate vse tiste, ki so zavzeli držo (stališče) proti vaši odločitvi, kajti prihodnost Zemlje je v rokah (danes) izključenih.

Hvala, kajti brez vas ne bi spoznali naše sposobnosti za mobilizacijo. Morda ta trenutek to ničemur ne služi, toda gotovo bo uporabno nekoč, malo naprej v prihodnosti. Zdaj, ko vojni bobni navidezno zvenijo v nepovratnem smislu, želim narediti za svoje besede, ki jih je antični evropski kralj namenil zavojevalcu: "Naj bo jutro lepo, naj sije sonce na oklepe tvojih vojakov, kajti v teku popoldneva jih bom uničil."

Hvala, da ste nam vsem, anonimnim vojakom, ki manifestiramo na ulicah, ko skušamo ustaviti že sproženi proces, dali možnost spoznati občutek nemoči, naučiti se soočiti z njim, se boriti z njim in ga premagati... Zato, uživajte svoje jutro in slavo, ki vam jo le-to lahko prinese.

Hvala, ker nas niste poslušali in ker nas niste jemali resno. Toda vedite, da vas mi poslušamo in ne bomo pozabili vaših besed.

Hvala, véliki voditelj George W. Bush.

Najlepsa hvala.

[Jacque]

<http://www.liquidgeneration.com/poptoons/saddamfromiraq.asp>

[Pravokotar]

Globoko v človeški naravi je zakoreninjena tragikomična, atavistična potreba po petelinjenju. Praviloma je ta potreba bolj izrazita pri osebkih z manjšo količino sive substance, tako da so prisiljeni poiskati čimvečji kup gnoja, se povzpeti nanj in se na vse grlo dreti: JAZ, JAZ, JAZ. Zadeva postane resna, ko se "petelinom" po principu črednega nagona pridruži večje ali manjše število ostale perjadi, si nadene neke razpoznavne znake oz. uniforme in začne pogoltno škiliti na sosednji kup gnoja. Jeba totalna :? Vsaj nekaj časa. Dokler se ne prikotali valjar zgodovine in od prevzetnega petelina ostane samo kupček perja in smorgsbord za tihe lokalne črve. Saj itak nikoli ni bil nič drugega.

That's all, folks.

PEPE

[marijan]

ja pepe, pol pa pride nov petelin....

[Pravokotar]

ja pepe, pol pa pride nov petelin....

Neizogibno.

[SiR]

"Ovobojeni" Iračani in Iračanke:

http://www.marchforjustice.com/id191.htm

Številke o tem, koliko civilistov je za vse večne čase "osvobojenih" tega sveta in njihovega tirana:

http://www.iraqbodycount.net/

Za razmisljanje:

http://www.zmag.org/wspjart.htm

Poročila ruske vojaške obveščevalne službe GRU in drugi ruski viri:

http://www.aeronautics.ru

http://www2.iraqwar.ru/

Zemljevid voj. operacij v Iraku in poročilo GRU, 31.3.03:

http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2003/04/1593866.php

Poročilo ruske vojaške obveščevalne službe GRU o poteku bojev v Iraku (1.4.03):

(prevod v angl. j.)

April 1, 2003, 1404hrs MSK (GMT +4 DST), Moscow - As of the morning of April 1 active combat operations continued along the entire US-Iraqi front.

The town of Karabela – one of the key points in the Iraqi defense – is subjected to a continuing artillery barrage. The town outskirts are being attacked by the coalition aviation. However, so far the US forces made no attempts to enter the town. Available information suggests that after evaluating Karabela’s defenses the US command made a decision to delay storming the town. Orders were issued to the coalition troops to move around the town from the east and to take control of the strategic Al-Hillah, Al-Khindiya, and Al-Iskanderiya region. Several largest highways are intersecting in this area, which also contains the three strategic bridges across the Euphrates. Gaining control of this “triangle” will finally open the way for the coalition troops into the valley between the Tigris and the Euphrates and the route to the Babylon-Baghdad highway. Yesterday and today early morning most heated combat continued in this area.

During a night attack the US forces were able to reach the center of Al-Khindiya by 0800hrs and to move to the right bank of the Euphrates. However, their further advance was stopped by heavy fire from the Iraqi positions across the river. Al-Khindiya is being defended by up to 2,000 Iraqi soldiers and militia armed with up to 20 tanks and around 250 anti-tank weapons of various types. During this battle one US soldier was killed, 2 were missing in action and seven were wounded. For now it is impossible to determine the Iraqi losses. Throughout the night the US field commanders have reported at least 100 killed and 30 captured Iraqi soldiers and militia members. However, by morning the number of captured was revised down to less than 15.

The [coalition] effort to capture Al-Hillah was unsuccessful. All attempts by the US troops to enter the town during the night have failed. Every time they were met with heavy Iraqi fire near the town. Intercepted radio communications show that one US APC was destroyed and at least 5 soldiers were killed and wounded.

Fighting is continuing near An-Najaf. The town is currently surrounded from three sides by the US Marines, who are still unable to enter the town. The Iraqi positions are being subjected to artillery and aerial bombardment. No information is available about any losses in this area.

Since 0700hrs reports are coming about large-scale attacks by the US Marines and infantry units against An-Nasiriya. As was previously expected, up to two Marine battalions deployed on the left bank of the river to the north of the town have begun advancing on An-Nasiriya from the north and are now trying to break the Iraqi defenses and to capture this strategic town. More than a hundred of aerial strikes have been delivered against the Iraqi positions [at An-Nasiriya] just during today’s morning. There is a continuing artillery barrage. All this indicates the US Marines are determined to fulfill their orders and take the town. However, so far neither Marines nor the paratroopers were able to widen their staging area or to break through Iraqi defenses. Radio surveillance indicates that during the morning hours of today there were 5 medevac helicopter flights to this area. At least 3 US soldiers were killed.

Another US combat convoy crossed to the left bank of the Euphrates and by today’s morning reached the outskirts of the town of Ash-Shatra located 40 kilometers north of An-Nasiriya. This unit is now engaged in combat. For now there is no additional information about this convoy’s losses or movements.

Localized fighting is continuing near Basra. Throughout the last night and today’s early morning the British forces were making attempt to capture the neighboring villages of As-Zubair and Suk-al-Shujuh, but, despite of overwhelming artillery and aviation support, the British were forced to return to their original positions. During these battles 1 British soldier was killed, 1 is missing and up to 5 were wounded. No information is available about the Iraqi losses. According to the reports by the British, at least 200 Iraqi troops were killed and no less than 50 were captured. However, only under 10 captured Iraqis were delivered to the British camp and only 4 of them were in military uniform. This was reported by one of the US journalist located in this area during a phone conversation with the editor.

Active combat reconnaissance operations by both sides are continuing in the north of Iraq. There have been reports of an attack launched by an Iraqi battalion against the positions of a US combat unit from the 82nd Airborne Division. It was reported that during the night the Iraqis moved around the US position and in the morning attacked the US forces from the rear. A fierce exchange of fire is continuing in this area. The US forces have requested aviation support.

The combat activity of the Kurds supported by the US forces was limited to clearing several areas occupied by its long-time enemy – the militant Islamic group called “Ansar al Islam”, after which the Kurdish units have stopped. Amid calls by the US military for a continuing offensive the Kurdish troops appear to be in no rush to engage the regular troops of the Iraqi army and are more interested in reaping the spoils of war. The Kurdish leadership is not particularly interested in “leading” the advancing forces. Instead they are calling on the US to strengthen the US forces deployed in this area. With at least another 2,000 paratroopers and to “bomb the Iraqis some more.” This indicates that the Kurds are not willing to move their forces too far from the home bases fearing an attack in the back by the Turkish troops. Their fears are reinforced by the continuing assurances by the US to respect Turkey’s territorial integrity. The term “territorial integrity” in this case covers almost 40% of the territory of the current Northern Kurdistan, which has the de facto independence from Turkey and Iraq. It is likely that the Kurdish forces will move forward only after the complete military defeat of the Iraqis, when their desire for the war booty will make them less cautious.

Analysis of the present state of the US-British coalition fighting in Iraq suggests that the current active combat phase will last for about 4-5 days. After that the troops will once again require time for rest, repairs and reinforcement. Most analysts believe that this time the coalition will require more downtime than the last time, when it stopped for just long enough to get resupplied and immediately continued their advance so not to lose the initiative and not to let the enemy come to their senses. The price of putting this “squeeze” on the troops is enormous exhaustion and extensive wear of equipment, which is long overdue for serious scheduled maintenance.

At the same time the fresh forces arriving in Kuwait from Europe and the US will not be able to join the combat before Monday April 7 as deployment of troops is progressing with many delays and is poorly organized. The units that already arrived [in Kuwait] cannot get to their weapons and the weapons already delivered here are sitting here without the troops to which they are assigned.

Because of this the coalition command has ordered the attacking forces to be as aggressive as they can be to use this short time to break the Iraqi defenses along the entire line of the front. The troops are ordered by the end of this operation to advance to the starting positions for the final assault on Baghdad and to begin preparing to take the Iraqi capital. This order is specifically referring to the importance of An-Nasiriya, An-Najaf and the Karabela – Al-Hillah– Al-Iskanderiya “triangle”. These areas will see the most combat action in the upcoming days.

Additionally, we should expect elements of the coalition forces reaching the Amman-Baghdad highway, currently controlled only by small US paratroop and special operations units and to form here in the area of Al-Khabbania the western side of Baghdad’s blockade. The Al-Khabbania region also contains three strategic airfields and large stores of weapons causing serious concern on the part of the coalition.

(source: iraqwar.ru, 04-01-03, translated by Venik)

[Noise]

http://www.gradis.net/Xray/xray.swf

[RAF]

http://www.madblast.com/funflash/swf/if_yo...igger_happy.swf

:shock: :shock: :? :?: :arrow: :roll: