umetna intelegenca

[BaTeMaN]

No pa še nekaj malega o šahu takole iz glave...

Osnove šaha izvirajo iz matematike... osnove matematike pa je orodje znanosti, je jezik tehnologije in osnova organiziranega razmišljanja. Od tu tudi vedno povezovanje.. z umetno inteligenco ter šahom... na tej tematiki se je pač veliko delalo,.. magari šah pri računalniki žal nima veze z inteligenco. Šah je nasplošno zelo dober za človeka v razvoju,... no.. jaz sem včasih kaj bral o tem.. :)

Tolk o tem.. da ne bluzim kr neki v 3 dni.. ker me že pač nekateri napadajo. :fight2: pa saj se ne čudim... :)

[SiR]

fikcija -e ž (i) kar je izmišljeno in v resničnosti

ne obstaja: prizorišče v drami je kljub določenosti

ostalo fikcija / literarna, pesniška fikcija / znanstvena

fikcija znanstvena fantastika // knjiž., redko domneva,

dozdeva: pri preiskavi je izhajal iz fikcije, da se je

stvar zgodila v tem času

* jur. pravni predpis, ki ima določeno dejstvo za obstoječe,

čeprav v resnici ne obstaja

Zamajal si nam temelje obstoječega sveta.

Sicer pa še en šahovski pogled: v šahu je vse absolutno, kajti igra kot taka ima v bistvu končno število predvidljivih premikov in izidov - razen v tistih primerih, ko nekdo ne zna pravilno odigrati zadnjih nekaj potez. well, pri takem absolutu verjetno ni prostora za "mnenje", ampak je zadeva zgolj absolutno situacijska. No, podobno je z znanstveno fantastiko. Absolut, le da smo še precej v izhodišču, v tistem delu postopka, ko zgolj malce sanjarimo - pa tu in tam kak windows naštimamo v PC... Čez nekaj let, ko se igra razvije, ko bomo več kmetov napredovali v kraljice, bomo še bolj dinamično špilali, morda tudi na strune AI :naughty:

Kdo bi vedel, ... jaz ne.

Pojedel sem te.

[RoadKill]

@roadkill:

1. definiraj mi pojem "inteligenca" s svojim besedami oz. kaj ti pod to razumeš (ne prepisuj iz literature, knjigo znam tudi sam vzeti v roke!

2. se zavedaš, da je, ko govorimo o inteligenci, govora o večih (pod)vrstah inteligence... tako imaš poleg matematične še čustveno, socialno... (menda jih je desem ali osem), nekateri v to skupino uvrščajo tudi t.i. "umetno inteligenco", ki pa zaenkrat ne zmore več, kot pa smo ji mi zmožni po-/ukazati.

3. Kar se tiče testiranja IQ-ja, ti bo vsa stroka potrdila, da gre predvsem zgolj za orientacijske vrednosti in da je določanje IQ-ja v mnogih pogledih zelo sporno. Tako lahko npr. avtisti v določenih pogledih presegajo kvocient 160, pa ne niti ne zavedajo svojega okolja, po drugi strani pa imaš ljudi, ki po formalnem pojmovanju inteligence "popušijo" vska test, pa se vseeno v njihovi družbi počutiš varno in se (kljub morebitnemu pomanjkanju vsakršne izobrazbe) z njimi kvalitetno in izpolnjujoče pogovarjaš ure in ure.

LP

Windsurf

@1. kdo je pa kje kaj prepisal. Kaj je inteligenca ne vem, kar lahko razbereš iz mojih postov. O umetni inteligenci sem se nekaj učil na faksu (ekonomskem), kjer smo govorili predvsem o simulacijah - what if analiza, metoda monte carlo itd.

@2. vem, da obstaja več vrst oz. podzvrsti AI, tudi več metod. Nekatere se ukvarjajo z diagnostiko (precej uspešno), druge z napovedovanjem, trendi.... Vse kar ima v realnem svetu preverjen model, se da spraviti v umetno inteligenco. Govorim predvsem o delu - model realnosti -simulacija - napovedovanje in diagnostika, kajti AI v smislu fuzzy logic (mehka inteligenca), razne nevronske mreže in podobno ne poznam in ni domena mojega študija. Naj ti to kak računalničar pove. V terminatorja pa tudi jaz ne verjamem. Human like roboti znajo komaj hoditi, tek je že SF.

@3. Se strinjam. Sicer pa tudi najhitrejši motor ni nujno najboljši (analogija). Mene IQ testi sploh ne zanimajo, omenil sem jih toliko, da nekaterim, ki ne verjamejo (ne priznavajo) obstoj AI že danes prikažem da je inteligenco težko predalčkat (mislim, kaj je in kaj ni) Tudi opozorilo na avtu: BITTE tanken je znamenje neke inteligence, pa čeprav ne človeku primerljive.

Kar sem hotel povedat je, da stvari ki imajo jasno definirane metode in modele in so empirično dokazani lahko učinkovito rešujemo s pomočjo umetne inteligence oz. modeli simulacije in napovedovanja (npr. v ekonomiji, matematiki, fiziki...).

[RoadKill]

Jaz pa se bojim, da bomo ljudje prej dosegli raven strojev, kot pa obratno.

Mentalno - morda, po učinkovitosti - nikoli!

[BaTeMaN]

Zamajal si nam temelje obstoječega sveta.

Sicer pa še en šahovski pogled: v šahu je vse absolutno, kajti igra kot taka ima v bistvu končno število predvidljivih premikov in izidov - razen v tistih primerih, ko nekdo ne zna pravilno odigrati

Kdo bi vedel, ... jaz ne.

Pojedel sem te.

da... in ko boš zrastel,.. boš razumel sam sebe,.. da še rasteš

Popravljeno November 3, 2003. Popravil SymRu

[Thundercat]

a bo računalnik kdaj premogel kak Mhz čustvene inteligence?....do takrat se ni treba nič bat....

[motomanijak]

Najbrž ste vsi slišali za psa po imenu AIBO (Artificial Intelligent roBOt), ki ga je naredil Sony. Za 3000$ si ga lahko kupite :naughty: :OK:

Tle mate povzetek o AIBO-u :

Nigel, from Sony, showed us how Aibo (which stands for Artificial Intelligent roBOt) could be partly disassembled by unlocking his limbs from the body. The body contains the central intelligence (main processor), plug-in Aibo-specific (pink) memory-sticks, and lithium-ion rechargeable batteries that give about 1.5 hours use on a full charge. His legs are powered by standard, small DC motors (not steppers) with potentiometers to provide positional feedback and give Aibo's legs 3 degrees of freedom. The head is a bit more complex because it houses, in addition to head positioning motors with 3 degrees of freedom, ear waggers, jaw control, a CMOS video camera for vision, an infra-red distance detector, microphone and speaker. His tail has 2 degrees of freedom. There are several touch sensors on the head, back, chin and legs. An acceleration sensor is included to provide orientation and balance control. A temperature sensor is also included.

Aibo can be fitted with a wireless LAN card with its own IP address to provide additional control from a PC either automatically or manually and using the video camera for "seeing" while also giving Aibo access to the Internet.

Aibo has most of the attributes a robot needs. That is, Aibo has 3 of the 5 senses we have. These are the senses of sight, hearing and touch (no taste and smell, at least yet). In addition, Aibo can sense distance, orientation and temperature (which are actually special cases of sight and touch).

Those present at the meeting saw Aibo use these senses and sensors to chase a ball, get back on his feet after being deliberately laid on his side and respond to some voice commands such as "sit". Unfortunately, time did not permit us to use the Life package which allows Aibo to learn simple skills, learn to recognise his name, and mature from a puppy into an adult dog.

V predstavništvu v Evropi si ga lahko tudi kupite. :lol1:

Pa še filmček (3571kB)

[Windsurf]

@roadkill:

1. nisem rekel, da si karkoli od koderkoli prepisoval... želel sem, da mi poveš, kako pojmuješ inteligenco!

2. govorim o inteligenci nasploh, ne pa o AI!

3. nevermind...

Windsurf

p.s.: morma se enkrat na pir vsest, na tak način ne prideva na isto valovno dolžino... debata pa bo gotovo zanimiva!

[klemens]

Sicer pa še en šahovski pogled: v šahu je vse absolutno, kajti igra kot taka ima v bistvu končno število predvidljivih premikov in izidov

Ko bodo računalniki zadosti hitri (in to je približno nikoli), da bodo lahko preverili celotno poddrevo možnih stanj iz trenutnega, računalniški programi za igranje šaha ne bodo potrebovali metod umetne inteligence.

Sprotno učenje programa za igranje določene igre je zadeva, ki je dokaj preprosta. Težava je v tem, da so druge (bolj preproste) metode bolj učinkovite. Je pa en od načinov izboljšanja.

Inteligenca je pa nekaj, kar računalniki ne bodo nikoli imeli.

Dejansko izkoriščamo določeno vnaprej znano informacijo za pohitritev "brute force" algoritmov.

Se zato imenuje umetna inteligenca ?

[BaTeMaN]

Glede na to, da se tu prvo nekaj piše.. pol nekaj izgine.. pol se nekaj editira.. ne vem zakaj bi še sploh kaj pisal.

SAD :BUA:

[RoadKill]

@roadkill:

1. nisem rekel, da si karkoli od koderkoli prepisoval... želel sem, da mi poveš, kako pojmuješ inteligenco!

2. govorim o inteligenci nasploh, ne pa o AI!

3. nevermind...

Windsurf

p.s.: morma se enkrat na pir vsest, na tak način ne prideva na isto valovno dolžino... debata pa bo gotovo zanimiva!

Hitro pišem poste in redko dodajam smeškote, zato verjetno nisi razumel, da sem se malo šalil. :P Sicer pa o tej temi nimam kaj dosti pojma - želel sem povedati, da umetna inteligenca na nivoju preprostih odločitev na podlagi parametrov obstaja. O AI kot human like inteligenci, za kar je verjetno ta tema odprta imam mnenje, da je mi verjetno ne bomo dočakali. Po moje s digitalno tehnologijo sploh ni izvedljiva.

Kar se pa piva tiče se strinjam. :OK:

Popravljeno November 4, 2003. Popravil RoadKill

[motomanijak]

Evo ene novice... :rolleyes:

Researcher studies human brain with digital orangutan

Digital orangutan may reveal brain functions.

She may be only a robot baby orangutan, but someday Lucy may tell us about how the cerebral cortex of the brain works.

And when she does, she'll be able to help people develop and build new computational architectures inspired by biological systems, as well as applications based on those systems that are more adaptable, intelligent and robust, according to Steve Grand, Lucy's creator.

Grand, a recognized authority on artificial life and the founder of Cyberlife Research Ltd., an artificial intelligence research company in Somerset, England, has written a book about Lucy, Growing Up With Lucy: How to Build an Android in Twenty Easy Steps (Weidenfeld & Nicolson), due out in January.

Grand says he hopes Lucy can tell him the basic operating principles of the brain—engineering that evolution discovered when it came to making nervous systems but that mankind hasn't yet unraveled. He is looking to use the neural building blocks of the brain as a map for creating AI.

Grand says there are two kinds of AI: "soft" AI, which tries to create high-level reasoning by explicitly programming rules for it into a computer, and "hard" AI (his preference), which involves making machines that are genuinely intelligent and can teach themselves. Enter Lucy.

"What I'm interested in are . . . the principles that enable a brain to organize itself into a set of machines that enable it to do all the things that brains do," Grand says. He wants to find the basic principles that enable the cerebral cortex to wire itself up in response to experience, until it becomes a very complex and specialized set of computing machines.

"How does that happen? It's completely unlike any technology we've ever made. It's as if you could take 50 million transistors and stick them in a heap on the carpet and show them Microsoft Office, and half an hour later, they'll spontaneously assemble themselves into a computer."

Grand says he wants to replicate that in Lucy with neural networks simulated on PCs. Lucy's intelligence will be a consequence of the interactions between thousands of simulated neurons. His goal is to develop a machine that can supplement or even supercede the digital computer—a machine that can think and learn.

On Her Own

Grand says Lucy is developing the ability to learn by herself. So far, she has learned to point to a banana—any banana: a green banana, a yellow banana, a big banana, a small banana. If you show her an apple and a banana, she points to the banana.

Grand says he hasn't programmed Lucy to do that; instead, he has given her a model of the bit of cerebral cortex that knows how to do it. "It doesn't sound like a huge achievement. Why not just program a computer to recognize yellow?" he asks.

But, he says, Lucy solved a whole series of problems by herself like detecting the lines that form the edges of the banana regardless of what position it's in or how far away it is, and she figured out how to point at it.

Thanks to a $68,000 grant from The National Endowment for Science, Technology and the Arts in London, Grand purchased 15 new computers and is building an improved Lucy.

When Lucy's new body is complete, she should have a voice as well as better eyesight and hearing, and she should be able to move her arms and legs, Grand says. He hopes Lucy will soon be learning to crawl and ultimately walk. He also hopes she will be able to repeat simple sounds, like toddlers do.

"Lucy won't be very smart, but it won't be far from the truth to say she'll have a mind of her own, albeit a very, very stupid one," Grand says.

Think of the robots that build cars, Grand says. "They don't adapt. If they go to pick up a part and it's not there, they pick up air. We have to build them so that one day they will be able to adapt to [different situations]."

But the question remains: Will he be able to do it?

Limits of Knowledge

Well, maybe, says Larry Yaeger, an expert on AI and a distinguished scientist at Apple Computer Inc. who lives in Bean Blossom, Ind. "With Lucy, [Grand] appears to be taking no shortcuts with sensory inputs or motor outputs, as he is striving to integrate real vision and audition, as well as voice, arms and legs," Yaeger says.

That said, Yaeger claims that the greatest difficulty Grand faces is mankind's limited knowledge of human brains. "The wiring diagrams, the details of the different kinds of neural and synaptic mechanisms and the almost unexplored influence of the baths of chemicals our brains are awash in, [are] still very much in its infancy," he says. "But it's possible that what we already know is enough for Steve to succeed."

But, Yaeger cautions, "I believe that . . . the complexities of those wiring diagrams are more likely to yield to evolution than to engineering. [Grand] believes design is the answer. I think evolution, and a willingness to evolve and learn from very primitive organisms first, before we hope to obtain simian or human-level intelligences in the computer, may be the better approach. But if anyone on the face of the earth can engineer intelligence from scratch, I believe it would be Steve Grand."

Vir