Intermot ter EICMA ; Köln in Milano 2016

[antares]

Honda je pričela s predstavitvijo.

Nov Fireblade 2017; +8kW moči, -15kg manj teže, 14% izboljšanje moč/teža, in seveda več kot 90% sestavnih delov je novih. 

Öhlins semi-active suspension; na oder je prišel Hayden (pri njem ni kaj dosti novega oziroma mladega, tako, da upajmo, da je z motociklom situacija boljša). 

In motocikel je to, kar so novinarji že ujeli; hura. 

Nov CB1100 in Fireblade SP je vse kar so pri Hondi privlekli na salon. 

 

 

 

Popravljeno Oktober 4, 2016. Popravil antares

[Nearrain]

40 minutes ago, antares said:

Honda je pričela s predstavitvijo.

 

 

What did you get for your last birthday? If you’re the 2017 Honda CBR1000RR Fireblade SP and you’re celebrating the big 25 then you got more power, less weight, traction control, ABS, a quickshifter that works in both directions, and a whole bunch of other trick new stuff culled from the RC213V-S (click here for Zack Courts' Onboard Video at Valencia Circuit aboard the RC213V-S). You also got some news for your birthday: You have a more athletic twin brother you never knew about, in this case a “homologation special” CBR1000RR SP2.

 

Photo: Honda

The 2017 CBR’s redesign was guided by the concept of “total control,” with the goal being a bike that is communicative, responsive, and easy to control. Sounds good to us.

Let’s start with some metrics. The CBR1000RR SP’s two big measures of performance have both moved in desirable directions. The SP’s wet weight has dropped from a claimed 441 pounds without ABS to just 430 pounds with ABS. Meanwhile, power is said to have received a 10-horsepower bump. The last CBR1000RR SP we tested made 152 hp on our dyno, so this bike is likely to put down a solid 160 at the rear wheel. Honda says the CBR’s power-to-weight ratio was improved by 14 percent. Not too shabby!

 

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Photo: Honda

The frame looks different, but that’s just because you see more of it now that the bodywork doesn’t extend as far back. The fairing is 24mm narrower at the top and 18mm slimmer in the middle, helping the CBR punch a smaller hole in the air.

So where’d those extra 10 ponies come from? Power was increased using a number of established strategies. New pistons (that bump the compression ratio from 12.3:1 to 13.0:1) put more squeeze on the intake charge to help bolster midrange power while new DLC-coated piston rings reduce friction and improve cylinder sealing. Shorter, slash-cut intake trumpets with bigger 48mm bores flow more air at high engine speeds, while revised cam timing helps produce more top-end power. Topping it all off is a higher redline, up 750 rpm from 12,250 to 13,000 rpm. The engine also gets a slip-and-grip clutch and lightweight magnesium case covers.

 

Reducing weight was a huge focus for the 2017 bike, and Honda went all-out pinching grams on everything from the new full-color TFT dash on down to the aluminum wheel spacers. The frame uses thinner sections to save weight and a new subframe and swingarm cut nearly 2.5 pounds, while the generous use of titanium cuts the exhaust system’s mass by over 6 pounds. Speaking of titanium, the CBR’s tank is made out of the stuff, shedding another 3 or so pounds. The tank is also over an inch narrower between your knees, making the bike feel quite a bit more compact.

 

2 of 3

Photo: Honda

Titanium baby! Switching from steel to ti sheeting shed almost 3 pounds from high up on the Honda. Sorry street riders, but tank capacity is reduced from 4.6 gallons to 4.2 gallons.

Other parts that went on a diet include the wheels (a few ounces lighter), bodywork (it’s narrow, and there’s less of it), radiator (over an inch narrower and thus lighter), and battery (it’s a lithium-ion unit instead of a heavy lead-acid unit). Not only do these parts weigh less, they’re also for the most part located at the bike’s periphery, which means they’ll have a bigger affect on handling.

 

Historically Honda hasn’t been keen to jump on the electronics bandwagon, but after debuting a bunch of incredible rider aids on the ultra-exotic RC213V-S, Big Red saw fit to bestow some of those goodies on the new CBR. Ride-by-wire throttle control and a 5-axis IMU open the door to race-grade multi-level traction control, wheelie control, slide control, and cornering ABS. There’s even a quickshifter that works in both directions. The rider interfaces with all these new features through new switchgear and a beautiful new dash with a customizaton display.

 

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Photo: Honda

Redesigned wheels have five Y-spokes instead of six, supposedly revising rigidity while also saving weight. Aluminum (instead of steel) wheel spacers drastically reduce unsprung weight. The muffler, swingarm, subframe, and gas tank are all new and all lighter than before.

The previous SP had Öhlins suspension, but this latest SP get’s the Swedish company’s top-shelf electronically adjustable pieces. No more fiddling with adjusters—just dial in the desired setting through the dash. Better yet, this semi-active system adjusts compression and rebound damping as you ride for the best handling possible.

 

It’s been 5 years since the CBR has seen a serious update 2012, but Honda is making up for lost time, just like Suzuki with the new-for-2017 GSX-R1000. [Link to GSX-R story] This latest SP’s spec sheet reads as sweetly as the best of the best (we’re looking at you, Yamaha YZF-R1M), but is it an R1-beater? We won’t know until we ride the thing. Honda says bikes will be in dealerships in March or April of 2017, and while pricing hasn’t been nailed down Honda suggested that the CBR1000RRSP would be “under $20,000.”

[antares]

@Nearrain  osnovni model so pozabili doma; samo SP in SP2 je na ogled. 

Nov Fireblade 2017; +8kW moči, -15kg manj teže, 14% izboljšanje moč/teža, in seveda več kot 90% sestavnih delov je novih. 

-  electronic control systems – new 5-axis Inertial Measurement Unit (IMU)

-TFT display 

- quickshifter za prestavljanje navzgor brek sklopke in Downshift Assist – and auto-blipper – za prestavljanje navzdol brez sklopke.

-SP ima   Öhlins S-EC suspension front and rear, using a NIX30 fork and TTX36 shock. Osnovni model???  Suspension Control Unit (SCU) receives roll rate, yaw rate and lean angle information from a 40g 5-axis (3-axis acceleration and 2-axis angular velocity) Bosch MM5.10 IMU gyro located close to the machine’s centre of gravity. It also gathers wheel speed, engine rpm, brake input and throttle angle from the FI-ECU and, depending on the suspension mode selected by the rider delivers optimal compression and damping force (adjusted via each step motor) during normal riding, plus hard acceleration, braking and cornering.

Rear Lift Control (RLC) to help keep the rear end under control when braking hard, especially into corners, while there’s also Cornering ABS which controls braking force according to lean angle, even when panic braking. This is a massive departure for Honda, having ditched their own C-ABS system in favour of a third-party solution – saving around 10kg in the process.

 

 

[Nearrain]

4 minutes ago, antares said:

@Nearrain  osnovni model so pozabili doma; samo SP in SP2 je na ogled. 

Nov Fireblade 2017; +8kW moči, -15kg manj teže, 14% izboljšanje moč/teža, in seveda več kot 90% sestavnih delov je novih. 

Honda je koncno naredila propisan nov model 1000ke in ne samo facelift.   Na zalost malce pozno, ker vso to "tehnologijo" konkurenca ze par let vozi naokoli. 

Popravljeno Oktober 4, 2016. Popravil Nearrain

[antares]

4 minutes ago, Nearrain said:

Honda je koncno naredila propisan nov model 1000ke in ne samo facelift.   Na zalost malce pozno, ker vso to "tehnologijo" konkurenca ze par let vozi naokoli. 

Najprej bo potrebno videti cenik in kaj je pri navadnem modelu; Ohlins gotovo ne. Drugo pa ima konkurenca že kar nekaj časa, kot si sam rekel, dizajn se vleče kot crknjen konj.

(vsa zadeva me spominja na avtomobile Honda; leta nazaj so bili v Evropi dobro prodajani in priljubljeni, dandanes so jim z ladje poskakali skoraj vsi trgovci). Sicer pa so si Japonci segment superšportnikov sami pokopali; šli so v ekstreme pri poziciji za krmilom, udobju in cenah. Kupcev, ki so pripravljeni dati za motor toliko kot za en dober Golf pa je malo, še posebej ker ta segment cilja na mlade.

Kdor ima dovolj denarja bo dodal za v svetu višje pozicionirano znamko in dizajn kot je BMW ali Ducati. 

[Nearrain]

2 minutes ago, antares said:

Najprej bo potrebno videti cenik in kaj je pri navadnem modelu; Ohlins gotovo ne. Drugo pa ima konkurenca že kar nekaj časa, kot si sam rekel, dizajn se vleče kot crknjen konj.

(vsa zadeva me spominja na avtomobile Honda; leta nazaj so bili v Evropi dobro prodajani in priljubljeni, dandanes so jim z ladje poskakali skoraj vsi trgovci). Sicer pa so si Japonci segment superšportnikov sami pokopali; šli so v ekstreme pri poziciji za krmilom, udobju in cenah. Kupcev, ki so pripravljeni dati za motor toliko kot za en dober Golf pa je malo, še posebej ker ta segment cilja na mlade.

Kdor ima dovolj denarja bo dodal za v svetu višje pozicionirano znamko in dizajn kot je BMW ali Ducati. 

tocno tko 

Ce mi lets uspe obiskat EICMAo vem kje se bom najbolj slinil.  Apriliin rio mare je se mal hujsi od lanskega

.

©Motorcyclist

The 2017 RSV4 RR (top) and Tuono 1100 share a clear family resemblance. The bikes’ new, slightly larger stainless-steel muffler is the most obvious change for 2017.

Just when we thought the Tuono V4 1100 and RSV4 superbikes couldn’t possible get any better.

Both the naked bikes (RR and Factory) and the RSV4s (R, RR, RF, and RF LE) get revamped APRC electronics with “fine-tuned logic” for systems like traction control, wheelie control, and launch control. The big news however is an updated quickshifter that now includes an auto-down function, allowing clutchless downshifts without even closing the throttle. As if shifting the big V-4 wasn’t already a thrill! This is serious WSBK racebike stuff for the street, people.

Cruise control is also a new feature for 2017. It’s of questionable value on the escaped-from-the-racetrack RSV4, but should prove quite useful on the Tuono 1100, a bike Senior Road Test Editor Ari Henning says isquite a capable sport tourer.

The Tuonos now carry the Brembo M50 Monobloc calipers and radial master cylinder from the RSV4s, and both families of bike get larger 330mm front brake discs (up from 320mm) and a cornering ABS feature that takes into account lean angle to ensure maximum performance and safety while trail braking.

 

1 of 1

©Motorcyclist

A new quickshifter with an auto-blip feature (wherein the ride-by-wire throttle valves momentarily open further) enables clutchless, open-throttle downshifts.

Full-color thin-transistor-film (TFT) dashes are becoming the norm on high-end machines, and for 2017 all Tuonos and RSV4s with have the fancy new display. (So does Honda’s 2017 CBR1000RR SP.) Traction control and wheelie control are now adjustable on the fly, without closing the throttle.

 

In the engine department, all of Aprilia’s V-4s are now Euro-4 compliant and have new ECUs and exhaust systems. Thankfully, the bikes’ roar is supposed to be retained and power—a claimed 201 horsepower for the RSV4 and 175 hp for the Tuono—is unaffected. Both bikes get elevated redlines, with the RSV4’s rising 300 rpm and the Tuono’s jumping up 500 rpm. The RSV4 gets lighter pistons, different valve springs, and revised cam timing. Aprilia doesn’t specify if the timing change is performance oriented, so it’s possible the change was needed to meet Euro-4 standards. Simplified throttle bodies (Aprilia did away with the variable-length intake trumpets) are over a pound (20 ounces) lighter.

The Tuono Factory gets the latest Öhlins NIX fork that’s said to be a bit lighter, while the rear shock linkage on the RSV4s has revised leverage ratios.

All bikes will have new graphics for 2017. Pricing hasn’t been announced yet, but unless it’s jumped up significantly, the V-4s (and the Tuono 1100 in particular) are still likely to be a pretty good value. Motorcycling doesn’t get much more visceral than an Aprilia V-4.

[Cartman]

4 hours ago, Cartman said:

z900 naj bi bil retro naked. Možno tud u dveh verzijah. navadn in prisilno polnjen

ugibanje:

 

 

turbo ugibanje

 

kar se dileme z800 gsx750s tiče......gsx1000s... :

 

3 hours ago, Fazer03 said:

Cela štala pri Kawasakiju: Z 800 je sedaj Z900

in pa er 6 N je pa Z 650 ....

http://www.morebikes.co.uk/intermot-show-kawasaki-announces-two-more-new-models-the-z900-and-z650/

 

Kurcem u celo. Ocitno tud cajtengarji ugibajo na polno,  in falijo.

[antares]

1 hour ago, Nearrain said:

tocno tko 

Ce mi lets uspe obiskat EICMAo vem kje se bom najbolj slinil.  Apriliin rio mare je se mal hujsi od lanskega

.

©Motorcyclist

The 2017 RSV4 RR (top) and Tuono 1100 share a clear family resemblance. The bikes’ new, slightly larger stainless-steel muffler is the most obvious change for 2017.

 

Spodnja half-naked verzija mi je še posebej všeč! 

V vsakem slučaju, to je zelo zaželjen in opazen motor! 

[sayo]

[antares]

Popravljeno Oktober 4, 2016. Popravil antares

[antares]

 

 

[antares]

Kawasaki -Z900 in Z650

Kawasaki je napovedal, da bodo v Milanu predstavili ta dva motocikla, za sedaj so dali v javnost tile sliki  

Z900 -

nov 948cc agregat, 126HP. Sklopka bo imela assist in slipper (manj zaviranja agregata in lažja ročica sklopke).

Agregat je v povsem novem okvirju iz jekla, teža 210kg. Sedež je nizek, 794mm!!! 300mm prednji zavorni diski,ABS je Nissinov. 41mm prednja vilica.

Barve:  Pearl Mystic Gray / Metallic Flat Spark Black, Candy Lime Green / Metallic Spark Black, Metallic Flat Spark Black / Metallic Spark Black and Candy Plasma Blue / Metallic Graphite Gray (Special Edition) .

 

Z650 (zamenjava za ER-6n)

649cc agregat je bil predelan, Teža 187kg, sedež 790mm! ista sklopka kot pri Z900.  Bosch ABS.

Pearl Flat Stardust White / Metallic Spark Black, Candy Lime Green / Metallic Spark Black, Metallic Flat Spark Black / Metallic Spark Black and Metallic Raw Titanium / Metallic Spark Black.

[jl79]

On October 4, 2016 at 6:17 PM, antares said:

Spodnja half-naked verzija mi je še posebej všeč! 

V vsakem slučaju, to je zelo zaželjen in opazen motor! 

Če bo cena pri Tuono ostala enaka kot pri trenutni (RR okoli 14500eur), se bo temu res težko upreti, sploh ker so dodali še par bonbončkov (cornering ABS, tempomat,...). Če bi še barvno kombinacijo od Factory lahko dobil na RR...  

[motolover]

On 04/10/2016 at 4:40 PM, antares said:

@Nearrain  osnovni model so pozabili doma; samo SP in SP2 je na ogled. 

Nov Fireblade 2017; +8kW moči, -15kg manj teže, 14% izboljšanje moč/teža, in seveda več kot 90% sestavnih delov je novih. 

-  electronic control systems – new 5-axis Inertial Measurement Unit (IMU)

-TFT display 

- quickshifter za prestavljanje navzgor brek sklopke in Downshift Assist – and auto-blipper – za prestavljanje navzdol brez sklopke.

-SP ima   Öhlins S-EC suspension front and rear, using a NIX30 fork and TTX36 shock. Osnovni model???  Suspension Control Unit (SCU) receives roll rate, yaw rate and lean angle information from a 40g 5-axis (3-axis acceleration and 2-axis angular velocity) Bosch MM5.10 IMU gyro located close to the machine’s centre of gravity. It also gathers wheel speed, engine rpm, brake input and throttle angle from the FI-ECU and, depending on the suspension mode selected by the rider delivers optimal compression and damping force (adjusted via each step motor) during normal riding, plus hard acceleration, braking and cornering.

Rear Lift Control (RLC) to help keep the rear end under control when braking hard, especially into corners, while there’s also Cornering ABS which controls braking force according to lean angle, even when panic braking. This is a massive departure for Honda, having ditched their own C-ABS system in favour of a third-party solution – saving around 10kg in the process.

 

 

Končno so potegnili glavo iz peska in spet naredili konkurenčen motor z opremo, ki jo nekateri imajo že od leta 2010.

[antares]

10 minutes ago, jl79 said:

Če bo cena pri Tuono ostala enaka kot pri trenutni (RR okoli 14500eur), se bo temu res težko upreti, sploh ker so dodali še par bonbončkov (cornering ABS, tempomat,...). Če bi še barvno kombinacijo od Factory lahko dobil na RR...  

Po moje bo verjetno najbolje počakati preko zime, da se razčisti tudi politika rabatov (popustov), ki so pri oblikovanju končne cene še najbolj pomembni.  Katero barvna kombinacija na splošno, ti je najbolj všeč?  

3 minutes ago, motolover said:

Končno so potegnili glavo iz peska in spet naredili konkurenčen motor z opremo, ki jo nekateri imajo že od leta 2010.

Pri Hondinih motociklih je že nekaj časa malce nenavadno; sledijo svojim avtomobilom (ki so postali redkost v EU) ali se zgledujejo po Suzukiju? Mislim, da bo pri tem CBR1000RR najbolj pomembna končna cena in kaj bodo ponudili v osnovni verziji; to bo odločilo, ali se bo ta motocikel tukaj obdržal ali pa bo šel v zaton. 

[motolover]

1 minute ago, antares said:

Pri Hondinih motociklih je že nekaj časa malce nenavadno; sledijo svojim avtomobilom (ki so postali redkost v EU) ali se zgledujejo po Suzukiju? Mislim, da bo pri tem CBR1000RR najbolj pomembna končna cena in kaj bodo ponudili v osnovni verziji; to bo odločilo, ali se bo ta motocikel tukaj obdržal ali pa bo šel v zaton. 

Honda v moto segmentu služi z mopedi za azijski trg, prodaja večjih motorjev jih očitno več ne zanima toliko. Vseeno izgleda tale Fireblade zanimiv izdelek. 

[DAMI34]

pred 22 minutami, motolover pravi:

Končno so potegnili glavo iz peska in spet naredili konkurenčen motor z opremo, ki jo nekateri imajo že od leta 2010.

jaz bom rekel tako, tisti ki so bili prvi pri vseh teh sistemih, so se ubadali z začetnimi problemi, tisti, ki to sedaj nameščajo že poznajo haklce. Dejstvo pa je, da so vsi že mel možnost to nameščat leta 2010, oziroma vsi tisati ki so premogli tipala za abs, pa za zdrs. 

Sedaj, kdo je bolj pametn, ti ne znam povedat, ampak razvoj elektronike VSEM to omogoča, še mal pa bo vgrajen bluetooth na armaturko, pa boš lahko komuniciral. 

Podobno je pri lučeh, led, adaptiv led....itd, eni prebijajo led, drugi dajo not že znano zadevo, ki deluje.

[motolover]

1 hour ago, DAMI34 said:

jaz bom rekel tako, tisti ki so bili prvi pri vseh teh sistemih, so se ubadali z začetnimi problemi, tisti, ki to sedaj nameščajo že poznajo haklce. Dejstvo pa je, da so vsi že mel možnost to nameščat leta 2010, oziroma vsi tisati ki so premogli tipala za abs, pa za zdrs. 

Sedaj, kdo je bolj pametn, ti ne znam povedat, ampak razvoj elektronike VSEM to omogoča, še mal pa bo vgrajen bluetooth na armaturko, pa boš lahko komuniciral. 

Podobno je pri lučeh, led, adaptiv led....itd, eni prebijajo led, drugi dajo not že znano zadevo, ki deluje.

Gledam iz perspektive prodaje. Če bi Honda takrat imela tak motor, bi jo jaz imel v garaži, tako sem pa kupil BMWja. S tem, ko so pri BMWju orali ledino, so v športnem segmentu pobrali veliko kupcev, ki so potem pri njih tudi ostali. 

Me prav zanima kaka bo cena za navadno in SP2. Honde in ostali Japonci žedavno niso več ugodni, kot so bile včasih.

[DAMI34]

Odvisno kjer segment tržišča zajemaš..EU ........GS prednjači, WORLD....wtf is GS? Kapišiš, po mojem je posla za vse....še preveč.

[blindek]

Japonci koliko gledam cene, ker ravno čez zimo namenim kupiti nov motor, so že skoraj tam-tam z ostalimi (razen tracer 900).

Upam, da nakoncu ne bom še res kje kupil kakega evropejca  

[Nearrain]

2 hours ago, DAMI34 said:

Odvisno kjer segment tržišča zajemaš..EU ........GS prednjači, WORLD....wtf is GS? Kapišiš, po mojem je posla za vse....še preveč.

Mal si v temo brcnil s tole izjavo.     BMW ni samo GS.

 2015

"""BMW Motorrad once again sold significantly more motorcycles and maxi scooters in 2015 than in the previous year. This means that the motorcycle segment of the BMW Group has achieved a new all-time sales high for the fifth time in succession. With a total of 136,963 vehicles sold (prev. yr.: 123,495 units), the most successful premium manufacturer of motorcycles and maxi scooters supplied 10.9% more vehicles last year than in 2014.

BMW Motorrad once again sold significantly more motorcycles and maxi scooters in 2015 than in the previous year. This means that the motorcycle segment of the BMW Group has achieved a new all-time sales high for the fifth time in succession. With a total of 136,963 vehicles sold (prev. yr.: 123,495 units), the most successful premium manufacturer of motorcycles and maxi scooters supplied 10.9% more vehicles last year than in 2014. In the month of December, too, sales increased by 6.6 % to a new record figure of 7,497 units (previous year: 7,032 units). 

BMW Motorrad experienced growth in all markets worldwide and was the market leader in 26 countries in the premium segment of motorcycles over 500 cc. The markets of North America and Europe made the biggest contribution to the increase in sales."""

[renyy]

Ja honda je res dolgo čakala, da je dala nekaj novega,  vsi so že imeli razne traction control , quickshifter itd... honda pa nič . Prav čudno.

Tudi suzuki je  "bil" za konkurenco.

Sicer je ta nova CBR1000 lepa, ampak škoda, da niso pustili  takšno obliko, kot jo ima CBR 250RR 2017, ki zgleda naravnost fantastično ( sem jo tudi videl v živo).

 

Popravljeno Oktober 8, 2016. Popravil renyy
druga slika

[antares]

BMW je s svojimi športnimi motocikli izjemno uspešen; ti predstavljajo pomemben steber dobička in prometa. Pri znamkah, ki jih sicer radi povezujemo s tem segmentom so številke dosti manjše ali pa so samo "flagship" proizvod, ki naj bi javnost prepričal v tehnično naprednost znamke; pri Ducatiju postaja serija Panigale dekoracija.

Pri športni BMW S seriji (21.100 enot/2015), je superšportnik S1000RR 4. najbolj popularen model (9.576 enot /2015). 

Po trgih: Nemčija 23.800 enot; USA 16.500; Francija 12.550; Italija 11.150; UK 8.200; Španija 7.976 enot (leto 2015).

16 minutes ago, renyy said:

Ja honda je res dolgo čakala, da je dala nekaj novega,  vsi so že imeli razne traction control , quickshifter itd... honda pa nič . Prav čudno.

Sicer je ta nova CBR1000 lepa, ampak škoda, da niso pustili  takšno obliko, kot jo ima CBR 250RR 2017, ki zgleda naravnost fantastično ( sem jo tudi videl v živo).

Še dobro, da niso nove CBR1000RR prenovili po vzoru na VFR; tisto je bila res katastrofa. 

Popravljeno Oktober 8, 2016. Popravil antares

[jl79]

5 hours ago, antares said:

Po moje bo verjetno najbolje počakati preko zime, da se razčisti tudi politika rabatov (popustov), ki so pri oblikovanju končne cene še najbolj pomembni.  Katero barvna kombinacija na splošno, ti je najbolj všeč?  

Črno/belo/rdeča mi je najlepša, samo je le pri Factory modelu. Pri RR pa je trenutno modra ali srebrna. Rabati pa bodo/če bodo verjetno le pri 2016 modelu, 2017 bo verjetno s polno ceno prišel pomladi.

[antares]

1 minute ago, jl79 said:

Črno/belo/rdeča mi je najlepša, samo je le pri Factory modelu. Pri RR pa je trenutno modra ali srebrna. Rabati pa bodo/če bodo verjetno le pri 2016 modelu, 2017 bo verjetno s polno ceno prišel pomladi.

V tako močnem položaju pa Aprilia spet ni, da bi prodajala brez popustov; dobro, slovenski trg je tako micro in poseben, da je tu možno še doplačilo :)))